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In this week’s episode:

• You don’t need to be “bad enough” to seek therapy – the belief that only severe mental health crises warrant support is a major barrier in the veterinary profession. Aoife urges early, proactive self-care and emotional check-ins.
• Systemic issues must be addressed, but individual empowerment matters too – while leadership must drive culture change, professionals can still take small, powerful steps daily to protect their wellbeing.
• The need for structured emotional debriefing – Aoife highlights how clinical supervision, common in therapy professions, could transform how veterinary teams process trauma and avoid burnout.
• Small wins combat black-and-white thinking – Identifying just one thing you did well each day – no matter how minor – helps reframe difficult days and counter negative spirals.

Aoife Smith, former veterinary nurse turned psychotherapist, shares a powerful conversation on reshaping mental health culture in veterinary practice – through systemic change, individual empowerment, and the radical power of one good cup of tea.

Additional Guest Spotlights

• Recommend Resource: Move over, email – Jamie Crittall reveals the everyday app feature that’s become his go-to for seamless collaboration in the veterinary world. You’re probably already using it… but not like this.
• Next Episode Sneak Peak: Is AI really ready to take on the complexities of veterinary care? Lupa CEO Nicolò Frisiani pulls back the curtain on what AI can do – and what it absolutely can’t – inside the practice.
  
  

Show Notes

• Out every other week on your favourite podcast platform.
• Presented by Jack Peploe: Veterinary IT Expert, Certified Ethical Hacker, CEO of Veterinary IT Services and dog Dad to the adorable Puffin.
• Aoife is an ex-RVN who is both passionate about and well-equipped to assist Veterinary professionals with improving their mental wellbeing and sustaining positive practices that maintain their mental health. With a BA (H.Dip) Psychology and an MA Counselling & Psychotherapy, she hosts lectures and workshops for Veterinary teams and students across Ireland, alongside running a successful private Psychotherapy practice.
• In addition to holding space for 1:1 clients both in person and online, Aoife has the pleasure of lecturing and interacting with the Vet Med & Vet Nursing students at her local university.
• Aoife is enthusiastic about reaching a wider audience with her cause, so she has lots of fun hosting The Vetglow Podcast, which is available on all major podcast platforms. She is also very active on her Instagram account @athenasmindtherapy.
• Aoife is very much looking forward to the positive change that is long overdue within the Veterinary community, and ultimately hopes that she can make even a small contribution to reducing the rate of suicide among Veterinary practitioners.

Aoife’s Recommendations:

• Paul Brunson’s podcast “We Need To Talk“, is a fantastic space focusing on relationships of all kinds, and in general, a very helpful resource for those looking to improve their communication skills and deepen their connection with others.
• Kelly McDaniel’s book “Mother Hunger”, and Chidera Eggerue’s “What A Time To Be Alone”, who so freely shares her thoughts on self-love not only within this publication, but also via her online platforms. While her opinions don’t resonate with everyone, I think that she is such an important voice for us to have and facilitates critical thinking through her nuanced opinions that one may initially get a little triggered by.
• Of course, Aoife’s own podcast, The Vetglow Podcast, a library of information and chats to stretch your critical thinking muscles.
• Find out more about Aofie Smith and Athena’s Mind Therapy here!

Transcription

Jack Peploe:
Coming up on Modern Veterinary Practice.

Aoife Smith:
I think if you can identify one thing today that you did well, force yourself to identify that one thing. Find that one thing. And even if it’s a terrible day in practice and you’ve had a really, really bad day at work, it doesn’t even have to be procedure owner, pet related. If you made the perfect cup of tea this morning, that’s it.

Jack Peploe:
Welcome to the Modern Veterinary Practice Podcast. I’m your host and veterinary IT expert, Jack Peploe. In this episode, I’ll be welcoming Eva Smith to the podcast who will talk to us about supporting the mental wellbeing of veterinary professionals and reshaping the culture around mental health in the industry. From her beginning as a veterinary nurse to becoming a psychotherapist and advocate for change, Aoife brings a deeply personal professional perspective on the mental health crisis in veterinary medicine and what we can do about it.

Aoife Smith:
Hello, my name is Aoife. I am a psychotherapist now, but I was a previous veterinary nurse in a past life. I graduated from University College Dublin here in Ireland in 2014, and then I spent my twenties gallivanting a little bit. I did a psychology module in my final year of veterinary nursing just as an elective, and I really loved it, but at the time didn’t feel like that was something I wanted to jump straight into. So I put it in the back pocket and then when I was 25, I decided that I really wanted to the therapist. And then that was the time when psychology happily came back into my life. So I did my postgraduate degree in psychology, and then I got my master’s in counselling and psychotherapy, and I did a full circle back to the veterinary community. So now I directly look after nurses and everybody on a veterinary team that you can think of on a one-to-one psychotherapeutic basis, but also doing practice talks, conference workshops, and all of the fun stuff like this as well, to get the message out there to the veterinary community that mental health matters, and also to hopefully reduce the rate of suicide in the community as well if I can be on the ground in the community. So yeah, that’s What I do.

Jack Peploe:
What a challenge. And that’s amazing background. So Aoife, welcome to Vulnerability Practice podcast, and obviously it’s absolutely fantastic having you on today. Now having started as an RBN and then transitioning into psychology and psychotherapy, you’ve obviously dedicated to yourself to improving the mental wellbeing affecting professionals, as you said, which is awesome. Now, mental health is something we talk about more and more, well, more than ever I would say than before. But there’s still obviously a long way to go in terms of meaningful change with the profession. Now, what I was kind of hoping to do today is to explore the reality of mental health challenges in veterinary medicine and more practical steps individuals and teams can take to protect their wellbeing and how we can potentially create a more supportive culture in this field. Now, I suppose starting off beyond the individual, how much of the mental health crisis in veterinary medicine is caused by systemic issues and what changes need to happen at an industry level to make a real difference?

Aoife Smith:
Yeah, such a beautiful question and I think a little bit of murky waters because the research out there at the moment is a little bit scarce, but what we do know is that the mental health crisis does exist on an international level. We’ve got stats from a lot of places, all over there in the uk, a little bit of stats from Ireland and the us, Australia over Europe. And what we do know are things like bets unfortunately are four times more likely to end their own life in comparison to the general population, and two times more likely in comparison to other healthcare professionals. So like doctors, nurses, human doctors, nurses, things like that. I read a stat recently in the US apparently 80% of vets will be clinically depressed at one point in their career. So that’s almost all of them with clinical diagnosable depression.
So that doesn’t even account for any other mental health difficulties that aren’t black and white or tangible or receive diagnoses across Europe. The stats are pretty much the same. The same. They’re doing great work in New Zealand specifically at the moment on veterinary nurse mental health and trying to work all of that out. So what we do know at the minute is that a lot of issues stem from the systemic structure or the way that we have structured our culture in practice, what that may look like is kind of incivility among the teams. So either you are not getting on well with your colleagues, there are client issues there. So a lot of that happens. There’s an awful lot of unfortunately sort of inappropriate behaviours that are allowed to happen in practice at the moment because they’ve been accepted as the norm. So that looks like things like verbal abuse, emotional abuse, and sometimes unfortunately physical abuse as well. And that ranges from colleague to colleague, unfortunately, client to staff member that can happen. And also unfortunately, practitioner to patients as sort of an indirect maybe cause or an indirect result of mental health issues. So trying to work out I guess, how much or get an exact number on an exact sort of pieces to the puzzle, shall we say is quite difficult. But we know that a lot of issues come directly from the top down, I suppose, if you could say so. Yeah, yeah,

Jack Peploe:
It’s a good point actually, because there’s often a belief that veterinary professionals knew what they were signing up for. I’ve noticed this because I’ve been involved with a couple of academic based institutions as well, and how do we challenge that mindset and create healthier expectations for those entering the field?

Aoife Smith:
Yeah, for sure. So that is that we’re trying to crack at the moment. At the minute, my approach sort of at a tiny level in my corner has been on an individual basis because I think what’s happening at the minute is there is an unsaid, not always unsaid, but knowing I suppose a general knowing within the community that structures need to change and work culture needs to change. But what I’m finding a lot is that people are going, leadership need to do X, Y, Z leadership need to do this, which is absolutely right. And I think accountability does come into it to a certain extent, but also I’ve been trying to work with my clients and trying to work with teams that I meet on a me to team basis to look at the individual level as well because I think it can be a bit disempowering to go, well, leadership isn’t doing this and this is just the way it is.
We’ve got to leave it be now. Whereas actually at an individual level, I’m wondering, well, what can you be doing for yourself while we’re trying to work this out? So are you caring for yourself appropriately? Have you got your basics down? Did you drink water today? Have you showered today? Have you brushed your teeth today? Did you journal this morning? Did you speak to another human today or an animal? Did you get the basics? Have you exercised today? What are you eating today? How are you? And empowering people to take control of what they can control in their own life is really important. Also, places are crying out for particularly nurses at the minute because there’s an awful lot in relation to nursing that is making it difficult, I think, to nurse pay being one of them. That’s the first thing I can think of.
Unfortunately, the pay is extremely low, particularly in Ireland for veterinary nursing in my opinion. And that’s making it really difficult for nurses to stay in the profession. So in my opinion, it’s a nurse’s game out there at the moment. So I’m thinking, okay, well if you’re not happy in your current practice and you don’t necessarily want to stay, where do you want to work? Can we get here on what you actually want for yourself and let’s find a practice that tick the boxes. So I’m probably rambling a bit, I’m sorry, Jack. But yeah, I think it does come down to an individual level while we hold leadership accountable in terms of what leadership can be doing. I do think, again, finances does come into it, so if you can pay your staff a living wage, please do. But also I think being open to conversations is really important.
I think that a lot of management teams, leadership teams, individuals within leadership teams will often say that they’re open to conversation and that they’re open to feedback, but actually when it comes to it, they are a little bit unsure of how to handle that feedback and how to speak about the feedback without fear. I think there’s this sort of fear of mistakes hanging over us in a rain cloud above the veterinary community. And I think that comes into many contexts and it doesn’t necessarily have to be a, can I do this surgery or not? It can be things like, can I take this feedback and not make it mean something about myself so that we can now fix the problem? Can I take this on and not make it mean something about me so that we can now fix it? So yeah, I dunno if I answered your question.
Jack Peploe:
It’s fired off a couple of other questions in my head and I kind of wanted to hop on that a little bit more with regards to sort of seeking support and therapy and why there’s this stigma around that. What are the biggest misconceptions? I mean you’re sort of talking about the fear aspect there, but what other big misconceptions are there around seeking therapy or support in the veterinary profession?

Aoife Smith:
Yeah, the number one jack that I’ve seen is the, I’m not bad enough rhetoric that I’m not anxious enough to go and talk to Aoife, for example. I’m not depressed enough to call her or message her and seek her help as a therapist. This idea that our arms and legs have to be hanging off before we sit in a therapy space is, I think so damaging. And I think, I dunno if sometimes I think it’s the media also and how we portray therapy in films and movies. People keep telling me to watch. I think it’s the Sopranos and he goes to therapy and people keep sort of likening me to things like that when actually if you are not feeling great, that’s all you need to say. You don’t need to justify how you’re feeling or say they have it worse. I think two things can exist at once. You can look at someone else and think to yourself, gosh, they’re having a really hard time. Doesn’t look like I’m having that kind of time, but I’m having my kind of hard time. And that’s okay. And we can both exist together and have different forms of difficult times and we can both go to therapy. So just because maybe your friend or family member or colleague is suicidal, for example, and you are not, doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t get into therapy.

Jack Peploe:
Yeah, a hundred percent. And I mean, because that’s all good and well, if I’m willing to accept that and accept that I do need some support and help. But from a colleague or a leader’s approach, what are some of the warning signs that someone might be struggling but not opening and wanting to talk about it?

Aoife Smith:
Yeah, absolutely. So a couple of things I guess to watch out for any kind of personality changes. So if somebody comes to work every day and usually says hello to everyone, maybe you can spot a usual routine with them. So they come in, they say, Hey everyone, they don’t have to necessarily bounce through the door, but they’re saying hi, they’re engaging. They might have a cup of tea with you offer to make you one, you make them one, they’re engaged, but you’re seeing that that’s changing. So they might come in and not want to talk to anybody. You don’t see them do their routine anymore. So no cup of tea maybe A lot of people walk around eating their breakfast in Tupperware. Listen, it’s veterinary. They have a little routine where they’re eating their porridge and chatting away. You’re seeing porridge is gone, they’re not eating and they seem kind of down in themselves.
Also, if anybody is particularly in terms of suicide, there’s a couple of things we can look out for. So if anybody is having a goodbye related conversation, getting a little bit nostalgic about things, sort of talking about memories that they may have had with you, I’m really sort of leaning into that. If they start to give their things away, they want you to have something or hang onto to something for them. I dunno, selling their car, they’re kind of giving really precious possessions away, re-homing their animals. Now this is very, very generic, so please take all of this in context, and I think people need to use their own initiative with these things. But yeah, there are some really subtle signs that somebody is really going through something. Also their presentation. So if you know them to more me present a certain way, so maybe they enjoy a makeup ritual every day and your work pal comes in and she never forgets her wing liner, but that’s kind of gone.
Or somebody really enjoyed something like an activity and that’s sort of gone. Maybe you’re in a really social practice and you like to go out a lot. If you are, I’d like to hear about that. How are you managing it? That’s beautiful. How does that work? I think other practices can learn a little bit from that, but if there are a lot of teen bonds and activities that this person would usually be really looking forward to, and you notice they haven’t gone to the last couple. So any changes in what you’re seeing as their personality, what their routine is, and also how much social engagement they’re doing. Any changes in pattern there, you may need to lean in and say, Hey, are you okay? And when you lean in, I think, how can I be here for you? Kind of conversation is always better than a, here listen, you’re slacking at work, why? So being sensitive with how you approach I think is important too. But yeah, I suppose some things you can look out for.

Jack Peploe:
No, that’s brilliant. And I want to sort of pick on your journey a little bit. What’s the one piece of advice you wish someone had given you when you first started in veterinary nursing?

Aoife Smith:
Wow, one piece of advice, I’m thinking back to when I went into practice initially I was only 19. I think no one is you and that is your power is a very important piece to remember, particularly if you’re entering the veterinary industry as a young person. Our brain isn’t fully formed until we’re 25 and we don’t really know who we are. And some people would argue they don’t really know who they are until they’re well into their eighties. So it just depends. But yeah, nobody is you and that is your power. So trying to get a lovely balance between celebrating other people’s wins, but not making someone else success mean something bad about you is a really important thing I think to hang on to. Because a lot of the time when we’re a little bit younger and we haven’t really established ourselves in life yet, we can look around and really compare to everybody else and how they’re doing.
Whereas actually if we can, I always think envy is healthier than jealousy. If we can get to an envious place, it means that we go, oh gosh, I love what they have. How did they do that? But it’s not only how did they do that, how do I do that? So it’s a nice productive place, whereas jealousy is like, I hate them. How do they do that? And that’s kind of where it ends. So if we can get us to a place where no one is you and that is your power, I think that strike it allows you to strike a really lovely balance between celebrating everybody else but also going on your own journey and eventually celebrating yourself too. I think that’s really important to remember, particularly with that fear of mistakes cloud that seems to be hovering over us all in the veterinary community at the moment.

Jack Peploe:
Yeah, no, absolutely. No, I love that. And from a takeaway perspective, what’s one simple tangible thing that every listener could do today to improve their mental wellbeing in practice?

Aoife Smith:
Yeah, I think in terms of, I suppose speaking on what I just spoke about, I think if you can identify one thing today that you did, well, force yourself to identify that one thing, find that one thing. And even if it’s a terrible day in practice and you’ve had a really, really bad day at work, it doesn’t even have to be procedure owner, pet related. If you made the perfect cup of tea this morning, that’s it. Done. That’s the thing that you’ve identified. But identifying at least one thing that you did well, I think really helps. Particularly with, because I think in veterinary practice we can so easily fall into black and white thinking because of the way that the day goes, and it’s so unpredictable. And when things are so unpredictable, our brain scrambles and attempts to grab onto every strategy it knows to try and regulate itself. And one of those things that can come in is black, white, or all or nothing thinking. And you might have one surgery that goes wrong and you’ll go, everything’s ruined when actually, no, everything’s not ruined. Look around you. Everything is not ruined. So if you can name one thing that you did well, it kind of wards off that black and white all nothing thinking that facilitates a negative spiral.

Jack Peploe:
Yeah. Nice and big question. If you had the opportunity, which to a point you do to reshape the veterinary industry’s approach to mental health completely, what would that look like?

Aoife Smith:
Of course, if I could wave a magic wand without any limitations whatsoever, I would make therapy a compulsory, compulsory thing. I would also, the reason being sorry is that I think therapy is so, so important for not only managing big feelings, shall we say, or tackling, tackling larger and wider issues such as suicide, for example. I think it is so, so important to be able to check in with someone for an hour and only check in on your life and what is going on in your world, and have that opportunity to speak on that and gain clarity around it, strategize on how you can help yourself and continue to help yourself. It’s a continued thing, which I think is so important. And because veterinary is so emotionally charged, I have no idea why we wouldn’t make therapy compulsory. Something really cool as well that I have as a psychotherapist is a clinical supervisor, and basically I go to see her shout out to Sheila.
I go to see her every two weeks, and I bring her all of my cases and I say, Sheila, this is everybody that I’m seeing. This is a particular thing that I’ve noticed with this client. We break down every case that I’m seeing, and she keeps me in check to make sure that I’m doing my job ethically. She gives me insight that I may not see, that she gives me new perspectives, and she kind of just keeps me on the right track. And it’s an opportunity for me to take my cases to her and debrief and say, this is what’s going on in 20 people’s lives right now. Give me your thoughts. And I have no idea why we’re not doing something like that in veterinary. I would love to see vets and vet nurses have a clinical supervisor be that externally to the practice.
Sheila’s external to me in my practice or somebody who is in-house that is just solely debriefing with people on cases. And what could you have done differently and how do you feel about it? What would you have done the same? What did you do? Well? And I think too, that would be a really beautiful opportunity, again, to identify what you did well. I think so many veterinary professionals go home pinking on God, remember when I did that thing? That was awful. I remember when I dropped that thing or drew up wrong amount of something or lost a sheet or misplaced the something. And everyone has gone home with all of these things in their head, and I just think it would be so wonderful to have a structured way of debriefing and getting that out of your brain. So that is something I would love to see for the veterinary community.
I would also love to see leadership be not as afraid to speak on mental health. And there seems to be this fear there, and I don’t have any stats or data, and it’s not been fully explored as to why that fear is there, but I can see it. I can see it, and it’s so unfortunate. I can see leadership, too, some leadership teams also trying to make really lovely changes like setting their staff members up with an external app that has mental health supports on there and all these lovely things. But I remember working in a practice and hearing that that existed for some of my colleagues, but it wasn’t talked about. I just heard about it on the grapevine. Somebody knew my background and what I was wanting to do, and I was like, why are we not talking about this? Why is no one pulling that app out in the prep room and going, oh, did you see this cool thing on there? Or like, oh, I saw this thing. This is really handy. Or has anyone used this who’s used it so that it hasn’t been any good? Those open conversations that are just not happening. And I really wish that they were. So yeah, I think those are the things that if I was to wave a magic wand, I’d send everybody to therapy on a compulsory basis and I’d bring in some sort of version of clinical supervision for everybody.

Jack Peploe:
Yeah, I think it’s an amazing idea, and we can only hope that that does come through, because I think they’re really, really good ideas. And I think the more we talk about it that the more the chance of something like this happening, which I think would be amazing, but I can’t believe the time. But thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you

Aoife Smith:
So much for having me. That literally went by the flash, didn’t this?

Jack Peploe:
It really did. But look, the insights really did blow me away. I was aware of some of the statistics, but not to a level. And in fact, I need to update some of our statistics that we use for internal training. It had the suicide rate at three times, not four times off general professions. But I know our listeners will take a lot away from this conversation. And honestly, it’s inspiring to see someone from within the profession dedicating their career to supporting others in such a meaningful way. So thank you. Now, for anyone listening who wants to learn more about your work or access resources, where’s the best place for them to find you?

Aoife Smith:
Yeah, of course. So I hang out on Instagram a lot. My handle is @athenamindtherapy. I also have a little podcast myself, very tiny community, but it’s a good vibe. I’m also, if they’ve listened to me and they need to just check in either for an appointment or a bit of sign posting, either one is totally okay. My email address is athenasmindtherapy@gmail.com. That’s all sort of appointments related. Yeah, that’s my email for appointments and stuff. But yeah, I’m also on LinkedIn, but sure who isn’t. So if in doubt, just look up my name and Athena’s mind and it’ll all come up for you. But yeah, I’m sure, Jack, you’ll link things in the show.

Jack Peploe:
All the links will be in the base there. That’s amazing. Eva, thank you so much. That’s fantastic.

Aoife Smith:
Thank you so much for having me.

Jack Peploe:
Every week we ask professionals and experts to suggest a best business resource for our listeners. This week’s recommendation is from Jamie Crittall.

Jamie Crittall:
I now find WhatsApp is brilliant. Now that they’ve introduced share screening. It’s the Charlie and I communicate. We use teams, we use email, FaceTime, whatever. But invariably now, particularly with a share screen, WhatsApp gives us the opportunity just to have a chat, do something together, quickly share, and I just find it really, really simple. Now, it’s almost just ingrained, reigned.

Jack Peploe:
Coming up next episode, we welcome Nicolò Frisiani, CEO, and co-founder of Lupa, a company pioneering in AI and veterinary. Nico shares his unique journey from consultancy into the world of veterinary innovation, and we dive into the realities of implementing AI tools in clinical workflows. We explore the practical challenges of diagnostic decision making, how Lupa is bridging the gap between data and diagnosis, and what the future could hold for AI assisted care.

Nicolò Frisiani:
I think it’s important to give a time to these misconceptions. As in, I think there’s a lot of things that today people think AI could be able to do. The AI is still very, very far from doing. I don’t think that necessarily will hold true for forever, but it’s definitely true today and most likely true for the foreseeable future. So what that means is there is a number of sophistications in the profession of the vet, but also of the receptionist of the nurse, of anyone and the staff at Better in the Clinic, to be honest, that are too complicated still for an AI to ever be able to substitute.

Jack Peploe:

Really, that’s it for this episode. All links and recommendations we talked about are in the show notes. Don’t forget to subscribe and share the podcast if you found it useful. In the meantime, thanks for listening and see you next time.